Aldo Zilli - When Fame is Served up on a Plate

In this episode of The Price of Fame, Jon Briggs talks to Aldo Zilli about life as one of Britain’s best-known celebrity chefs and the reality behind stepping from of the heat of the kitchen into the blaze of the celebrity spotlight. 

From building restaurants and becoming a television personality to coping with pressure, setbacks and public scrutiny, Aldo reflects on what fame has really brought him and what it may have taken away.

The conversation also touches on famous figures he’s known along the way, including Chris Evans, Freddie Mercury and George Michael and what watching their lives taught him about the true price of fame.

Hosted by Jon Briggs, broadcaster, journalist and the original UK voice of Siri.

This podcast is also available in vision here: https://www.youtube.com/@ThePriceofFameVodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:08

This is The Price of Fame, the podcast where we ask a simple question. Is fame something people truly enjoy, or something they simply learn to live with? I'm John Briggs, broadcaster and journalist, and for a while a voice that lived in millions of pockets, so you know my voice, but on my face, which makes my limited level of fame much simpler to deal with. And today's guest knows exactly what it's like to build something real, and then watch fame arrive at the table uninvited and order for everyone. My guest this time is one of Britain's best known chefs, a restaurateur, television personality, and a man who has spent decades in an industry where reputation is everything, and fame can be both a magnet and a magnifying glass. From the kitchen to the cameras, from packed dining rooms to the brutal realities of the restaurant trade, he's seen what happens when your name becomes the brand. So, what is the price of fame when your life's work is served on a plate? Aldo Zilli, welcome to the Price of Fame. Buongiorno. Bongiorno. Let's start there. Let's start with your life before fame. Born in Italy in the beautiful region of Abruzzo, you're one of nine children, correct? Yes, that's right. When did you first learn to appreciate food as a child?

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Okay, so John, I mean uh how long is this podcast? Because I have a live story uh of the life stories. I I was um born in a little village in the middle of uh Abruzzo, um Niteramo, which is uh the city, and uh in Abruzzo, I don't know whether you've ever been, but we have the seaside and we have the mountains very close by. So uh I was born in a farm and um we had um uh animals. Uh I had uh seven brothers and one sister. So hence the fact I never had my own pair of trousers till I was fifteen. Uh so I mean growing up was was uh beautiful in a beautiful big family, but very, very poor. And uh food was a premium. Uh mum mum had to cook with uh no uh with no uh facilities, so it only had an open fire. Uh there was no electricity, I remember. And uh so yeah, uh it was very, very uh tough growing up. I mean, in those days, um I don't know what uh I would make of these things nowadays because uh when I go back and I go back to that village and I go back to the house where I grew up, it's very it's it's always very emotional for me. I don't know why. Uh but obviously I uh because probably because I grew up with all my family there. But um I loved it. John, I absolutely loved it, and I took it all for granted, all those lovely ingredients that came out of the farm, and uh all of a sudden my dad decided to buy a house by the sea, so my mum had nothing to cook. Oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

So when did you get interested in food?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Um, age 11, uh, when we moved by the sea, because um my mum um uh sent me uh well, I mean, child delay didn't exist then, so I had to go to work um in the summer to pay for the uh books to for the school in the winter in terms. And so basically uh I worked for a fishmonger. Okay and I I got paid in fish, not money. Was that the first food you learned to cook? Was fish? That was the first, yeah, hence the fact I opened fish restaurants in London. Uh so fish was always my passion uh to cook, and uh it didn't do me any harm learning to uh to cook with mum because uh that's what I did. You know, we had to cook, she had to cook for the family. So it was uh every Sunday, uh, you know, my brother, one of my brothers was a priest, they all went to church. I stayed behind cooking with lovely Maria.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

And did she teach you all her skills? Did she teach you uh family cooking at its at its best?

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Well, I I don't know whether she even thought at the time that she was teaching me anything or or um made a point of teaching, uh, but I just helped uh in the kitchen. My dad, of course, uh he was uh a very strict Italian man and he wanted the girls to be in the kitchen, not the boys. The boys had to go to work. So for me growing up was um I almost had I almost had to hide in the kitchen with my mum to l to to cook with her because my dad would get upset and would uh throw me out of the kitchen. So yeah. Um I had seven brothers, so they're all older than me, and they're all, you know, working, and I'm uh in the kitchen with my mum. So it was a bit um strange the the way that this came about of me cooking.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

But then there must have been a very strong pull to the kitchen. You know, you're you're endangering your father's wrath, your other brothers are doing something completely different. This is you standing on your own going, I want to do this. What was it internally when you know that that 12-year-old that said, no, I I want to be in the kitchen with mama?

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Uh well, I don't think that I wanted to work in the kitchen. Uh I think I liked the kitchen because I got to eat. You got first dibs. I got more than the others because I was because I was prepping with mum and uh I got to eat uh every day before everybody else. Uh I think that had a lot uh had a lot to do with it actually. And um, you know, uh realizing and understanding different ingredients as well, because nowadays, uh you know, teenagers nowadays uh don't know the difference between a carrot and a and uh and an aubergine. But I learned I got to learn about ingredients and about the uh the the seasonality of it and the you know what comes out in the spring, what comes out in the autumn. So it was um and and also Christmas, uh Easter, all those uh lovely time of year that um we got to cook different things and that's what I got interested in in the cooking side of it, but actually I didn't want to be a chef.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

You left Italy, age 20, you came to England. Why England? What brought you here?

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Uh if I can go uh if I can take you back a little bit, I left Italy at 16 and I went to Germany, not England.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Um I went that was my first uh outing uh because I wanted to work in hotels. I I wanted to become a concierge, I wanted to learn languages. So I went to Germany to learn German because where I came from in the summer was full of German girls. Therefore, I wanted to go and learn Germany, Munich. Now we understand. That's right. That's like the the only reason why I went to Munich. And um, yeah, and I ended up uh in a in a spot of border in Munich because uh I ended up on my own and uh I had no money, no phone, and uh I ended up homeless for a couple of weeks. So it was a bit tough uh at the beginning. But then, you know, um uh a chef gave me a job uh in this Italian restaurant, and then I worked in a French restaurant, and I learned all the techniques. I earned all the techniques in Germany, actually, in a French restaurant. And then I came, uh I met an English lady, young lady, uh very young lady, and uh she brought me to London, and here I am, uh all them years later.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

What was the first point where you realized that being a chef was a chef was was something you actually wanted to do rather than, as you've said, a way of earning money and perhaps learning some languages?

SPEAKER_00 8:51

I always had a passion for food. And I loved going to the market, buying food, and cooking it. Uh when I worked in um restaurants. But my first jobs in restaurants in England, because I didn't speak the language, obviously, I came to England with um uh a German and an Italian language, so I had to start from scratch with English. Uh and because I didn't uh learn, I didn't speak English, I couldn't work in hotels in the front of a house. I I had to work in kitchens. And uh kitchens was fine by me. And uh I started thinking, hang on a minute, I quite I really like this. And I started cooking for people and people loved it. And then I I got restaurant, I got restaurant jobs uh all over the country. And uh, you know, I was in 19 when I got my break in um uh Soho, 20. I was in 20 when I got my break in Soho and I got a job there. And by the age of 28, I had my own restaurant, to be honest. I was a very fast learner.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

You say you were a fast learner, but were you an ambitious learner as well? When you got that job at 20, was there anything in your head at that point that said, and I want to work hard to have my own restaurant?

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Um the the the having my own restaurant thing came by chance. Uh and you know, in life, if someone wants to give you a chance and you uh refuse it or you or you mess it up, um I think that could be the making or or the failure of your life. And I took it, I embraced it with both hands when this guy decided, my boss decided to retire, and said, Would you like to run my restaurant for £500 a week? What's there to lose? I still let's go for it. And I I took a risk um in a sense of young mafia in Soho, Maltese Mafia in Soho, uh a lot of trouble uh that came with having a restaurant of your own, uh paying people, suppliers, employing staff. In those days, everything was a little bit easier, to be honest, than it is now. Uh, because you know they uh there was I remember there was no credit cards, there was no uh VAT, uh the rent was very cheap. And uh I thought, well, I've got very little to lose here. So I started going to my uh markets, buy my food, and sell it to whoever wanted to buy it. And there was a lot of takers, trust me, there was a cues uh that people wanted to eat my food because I I suddenly brought something that it was a bit different than the other Italian restaurants. I mean in Dean Street there was there was um only in Dean Street there was seven Italian restaurants. So it was like a little Italy, Soho. If you if you I don't know whether you remember, but it was a lovely lovely village.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Yeah, I mean I I was uh I was young and working at broadcasting house aged 19, uh and and Soho were you know, as you say, certain areas had that feeling about it was a a little Italy. Uh in in terms of of what you wanted to achieve, though, being successful, i there's a bit of of one's own ego in there. Is there a bit of of the Aldo Zilly age 20 who's saying, I can be famous, I can create something that is going to be renowned throughout not only the city but the country as well?

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Um the answer to your question, I was hard worker, and uh I had a huge ambition of um of becoming different. I dressed differently, I behaved differently, I was different, I felt different. Um I had a ponytail, you won't believe it now. Uh I was I was um I I you know I spend all my earnings uh wearing designer clothes. I loved going out. I loved um the club scenes in those days and uh I love mixing I always mixed with I don't know uh whether I want to say the word better than me, but at least more famous and at least uh I I wanted to get to meet the best people. I wanted to meet people that taught me something. I wanted to learn. I was a I was a fast learner, but I I was you know, I didn't go to school very much, so I wanted to learn uh this the school of life, basically. That's what uh brought me to where I am now, I think.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Do you remember the moment when you realized you weren't just Aldo Zilli the chef, you were Aldozilli the personality.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Uh d that came uh a bit later on. Um I was about thirty two uh when um I was uh working in one of my restaurants in Soho, uh Signorzilli. I just opened Signor Zilli and I was serving uh and cooking for people outside my restaurant on the Alfresco, and uh I remember Arvi Kaitel, the actor, was sitting there. I never forget this day, and I never forget the moment. Arvi Kaitel was sitting at his table, and there was a lot of people asking him for autographs and things, so I thought uh he must be famous. I didn't know who he was. Uh and uh next to him there was a guy, uh a producer, uh TV producer, sitting there, and uh he called me to the table, he made me sit down, and he said, What you do here, do you think you could recreate this food on camera? I thought, what do you mean? So he said, Can we do a little VT of you cooking a dish in your kitchen tomorrow? So I've I froze. Camera for me was like, oh my god. Uh and uh we did the VT. Uh obviously went well, and uh the uh Carlton Food Network channel started, and uh me, Anthony Walt Thompson and um Brian Turner, uh my fellow chefs, opened the channel and I got six series out of it. So Aldo Zilly became now I not only I I was a personality in the restaurants, but I start feeling famous. I don't know whether that makes any sense. But if it does but tell me what that feeling was. It was an amazing feeling when I was talking to people uh because I I'd filmed a series, nobody has seen it yet, but I felt uh like famous without being famous, if you know what I mean. So I started talking to people in a in a more um I was more confident about myself, the way I was I started to speak, the way I was behaving with people. Uh but um later on it just got to me a little bit, but uh at the beginning it was uh amazing feeling. It wasn't just a great feeling, it was a feeling that I never felt before. You know, you can imagine coming from where I came from to suddenly um people start talking to me and I and um I I kept telling everyone, obviously, that I've been doing this and that and the other with cameras, and uh people had seen it on the in the restaurant because we filmed all the series in the restaurant, and uh and it the feeling was different.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Did television change you or just change how people saw you both. Uh I think uh a bit of both.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Uh I think uh my family obviously uh was my family, but um when I stepped out and I went to work and and people started recognizing who I was, um yes you do change, um but it people around you change, which is which changes you.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Um how do people change in the in the way they they they they react to you?

SPEAKER_00 17:58

I felt I felt like people were starting becoming a bit more nervous around me and and talking to me a different way, and uh and um a lot of people tried to use my um image, uh my name, you know, when they wanted something, they used my name in the restaurants and all this all the rest of it. Uh but um I mean I I didn't change as a person at all. I was I was still Aldo and um I I I kept myself, my my feet in on the ground for a long time. Uh but then it does affect you, you know, when you start meeting other famous people, uh extremely famous people, not just uh a chef or you know, someone that has done a bit of uh um uh uh sorry um TV that is um on uh cable cable TV. So I I started, you know, I wanted to do the the three channels. I you know, the original channels or or or ITV. I I was very keen to to do prime prime time sort of um uh BBC. Uh that's what I wanted to get to. Uh because it wasn't it then didn't be uh what I did was was good, but it for me the Carlton Food Network channel wasn't enough anymore. That's how it started. And then, you know, you start meeting other people, or you start meeting more famous people, and then that things do change, yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

So did fame make your restaurants more successful, or did it just make them more visible, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Um again, a bit of both, because um uh they became, you know, I start filming in the restaurants, uh, different things, and uh celebrities started coming, and there was no phones. Uh so we started getting articles in newspapers. So and so was in, you know, zilly fish last night, eating such and such, that kind of stuff. And then and then uh I started doing a lot of radio, uh uh national radio. I started doing uh Ready City Cook. That was uh a big, big break for me. Um and and the restaurants. So the restaurants started becoming the busier and busier, basically. I think it was, yes, because you know it's free PR, isn't it, TV?

SPEAKER_02 20:36

So you're now a performer, you're not just a chef, you are a performer on TV, you are an entertainer as well. Did that come naturally or was that something you had to learn?

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Uh again, uh I had to learn, obviously, from the best, but I was ha I was lucky that I did learn from the best because I'm I met a lot of people uh in our industry uh that I followed and that I um I went on, you know, I went on tour with George Michael, for God's sake, if he's not a performer. Um you know, I went on tour with people I I uh studied uh you know radio was uh my biggest passion. I loved radio, so I ended up doing a lot of radio. Um and uh yeah, it was a bit of both. You know, I learned, but uh I also came naturally because if you if you don't have it, you don't have it. You know, this this industry, as you were very well known, um I could put you on stage and give you a mic, and if you freeze, you're going, you know, you ain't gonna have it. You're just gonna not do it. But if you can tell a few jokes and people laugh at my bad jokes, and and uh I can do a bit of, you know, demonstrations in front of You gotta realize that I used to do the BBC Good Food Show, for example, I used to do demonstrations in front of a thousands of people, uh food demonstrations, and you can't be shy there.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Did you ever get nervous? Or were you just it was so much part of you and you loved the demonstration of your art that it didn't, it was never a problem.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

I cried a few times of for nerve of nerves before, you know, like five, five, ten minutes before, because there's no going back, as you know. You when they call your name, you have to go. And you you know, you can't um uh you can't turn back. Uh the nerves got to me, I think once or twice, and then I used it to my advantage later on, you know, because we're all getting a little bit ner nervous. I got a little bit nervous before I started talking to you this morning.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

So I don't know why. We take the nerves, don't we, and we turn it into adrenaline, and that's what powers us through. That's what I'm saying, yeah. When we you talked about George Michael, and I I want to come on to the plethora of celebrities that you have spent time with. What did they teach you? What was the best advice that these incredibly famous people taught you about how to manage your own rising celebrity then?

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Um, well, I mean, I never rose as far as they they got to, but what I what you get to learn with people like that by hanging out with them um is your eye is always um checking what people are thinking and saying about them. So when you walk into a room with people like that, there's a there's an aura, there's a there's a certain there's a sudden um either silence or or people react uh by you know having um whispers and and or take a picture, and now they would, but in those days there was no cameras. Um and I I kind of learned to stay cool, to stay, you know, in your own space and be humble, you know, to to people. If you don't want to be famous, you shouldn't be doing it anyway. Um, you know, and and uh if someone wants to talk to you, make the time for them. Uh if someone wants to take a picture, um make the time for them. I mean, Freddie Mercury was the best um advocate for that. He was a private man, but at the same time, he was uh a very generous man with everyone he met. And you know, I I I got the chance to spend a bit of time with him, uh, and I feel blessed. The fact that, you know, someone as big as that um was so down to earth.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Again, I want to come onto that in a second. I just want to talk about you, you know, in the midst of all of this celebrity dumb, you're still running restaurants, aren't you? You're still having to ensure the business keeps going. I know where you're going with. Because at this point, you know, are you sitting there thinking, do I still need to run the restaurants? Can I be Aldo Zilli the shelf without the restaurants? What's going on in your head? Just that.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

What you just said. It was it was uh bothering me every day and every night. But then I thought to myself, without the restaurants, I wouldn't have any of this. So the restaurants were huge part of my life and my existence and my and my financial existence as well. Um the the problem became when um you start hanging out and parting with people, um and you s they can sleep the next day and you have to get go to the fish market at five o'clock in the morning. That's where it started uh taking its toll uh in my um in my life, in my career, and uh also in my uh physical uh state, because you know you you can't just do that. You probably do it a couple of nights, but you can't do it all the time. And for me, it became all the time.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Again, I I I really want to talk about that, but I want to finish the little restaurant section, if I may. And and that is to say, here's the fame, here's the all the celebs who are who are flocking to Aldo Zilly's restaurant. What does that do to the menu you have to prepare, the standard of food that you have to create night after night? I mean, do people taste food differently when they know that it's a celebrity chef behind it?

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Um they expect more.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

They expect a carbonara to be made with one chale, for example. They expect from a chef, they expect the real authentic Italian food. And that's what I did. There was a lot of restaurants, average Italian restaurants in i in London in those days, that was serving food that wasn't authentic Italian food. So I started serving food that belonged in Milan, not you know, not in London. So I I you know I was importing I started importing ingredients from Italy pick to make the food taste like it should do. So yes, you're right. Um people did expect m my food to be different and my food to be amazing. Therefore, I had to employ an absolutely amazing chef, a very expensive one, for example, you know, because I couldn't be in the kitchen 24-7. Uh, I now want to be outside with my my friends. Uh so if you want to do that, you have to be covered, you know, your shoulders, your your kitchen needs to be covered. Therefore, you have to employ people. And then it became it became a little bit more expensive to run. And and the business started was flying, but then um after a while it takes its toll, you know, if you if you take it for granted.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Okay, let's talk about these these famous faces that that you spent a lot of time with, and as you say, you ended up partying with them. We know that people want to be associated with well-known people, and th the dilemma for people who are celebrities is always, do you want to know me because I'm me or do you want to know me because I'm famous? How did you deal with that side of fame?

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Um I I always knew the difference. And I still do.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

I always know the difference between people liking Al Dazilli or liking the brand. So I can't I can't I find it I find it quite easy. But to be honest with you, I have to be totally honest with you, I loved it. I can't say I didn't enjoy it, and I still do. I in I don't enjoy it, I love it. You know, it it's it's what I do. It's what I was put to this um universe to do. I I think that I need to be, I always need to be out there, and if I walk into a room and I don't make it and I don't I don't make a difference, uh I don't I don't like it. You know, I'd I like to wear um a pink jacket. I like to I like to look and feel and behave different to uh other Italian chefs, if you if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

That's a that's a a a really candid thing to say. Uh and I and I think it comes of I've never told anyone this by the way. No, it's great, but I I think it comes of a being a certain age, doesn't it, where you can turn around and go, do you know what? Fame. I love it. It's fantastic. But the 35-40-year-old Aldo, you probably wouldn't have said that, would you?

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Um I've got the attention, so you know, I had sports cars and I got the attention and I and I got um what I wanted from fame. So why not love it? I I I I don't know what what um people are complaining about when they get bothered by by fame and when they get bot- I mean uh there are a lot of people that um are abusive uh because they didn't like your spaghetti bolognese on television or something. You know, I I've I I've had a few of them, but not many. I've always I've always had a lot of positive about my brand and about myself. You know, people love me in this country, and uh, this is a you know I'm adopted. I'm not I'm not uh English, you know, although I speak English, I think, probably better than any Italians, but I I'm not British and I and I love I love this country, and that's why I'm still here. I've got uh I created families and all sorts.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

So the the the the upside, the positive side of fame is one you clearly relish. Is there a price to Aldo Zilli's fame? Is there a price?

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Did you have to pay you you pay the price of of um I don't know, uh, you know, not being able, I remember in um in the in the peak times when um I did a lot of uh prime time TV, um, of um, for example, uh I'll give you a very quick example, if I may. I I did a celebrity X Factor uh with four with three other chefs. Big, massive, uh I didn't realize how massive that show was. Uh and then when I finished, I went, I took my son to the park um with a prime, like I used to all the time. All of a sudden, overnight, uh the park is not for me anymore, because there were so many people that wanted to talk to me and uh, you know, wanted to abuse my singing voice. And uh yeah, so that was a price that I couldn't go and do the things I wanted to do anymore. But that didn't last, to be honest, it didn't last that long, so it wasn't that bad.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

The restaurant chain closed in 2012.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

You you pulled the plug on it, you decided that it was uh not something you wanted to do anymore, and as well a lot of the rents and rates had caused problems for you as well.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

How did that feel?

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Um without getting emotional, uh it was probably the most challenging time of my life, um, especially selling the last one to um Richard Kering. Um I the Ivy group, and uh he sent a young lady to pick up my keys, and uh I was given the keys to this young lady uh on the street, and uh she said to you, have you locked everything up? I'm like, I can't believe I'm giving these keys away. And that was uh twenty-five, thirty years of soho coming to an end. I was leaving my village, I was leaving my uh house, I was leaving my I was moving away from uh an area where I knew every corner and um I I just gave the keys away and uh I'll never forget I went home and didn't go out for a week. I got a little bit um on the depressing side. But um then I because I'm who I am and I always think that my brand is strong and I always think that I can reinvent myself, that's what I did. I switched over because you have to. Uh you can't sit on your laurels, you can't do, you know, you can't get depressed about if that is meant to go, that is meant to go. So that's what I thought. I thought that's meant to go. So I've got a new baby, I've got a new son uh that just come, uh just arrived, Rocco. He's now 20 years old. Um that was exactly 20 years ago, exactly. So yeah, so there you go. I moved on into I thought to myself I can probably give back in a di in a different format, and uh I became a consultant. And uh I've been very successful with it ever since.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Did it change how you felt about yourself because you were no longer in that kitchen, you were no longer formulating the menus, you were no longer dealing with the day-to-day requirements, which are incredibly tough, as we've already said, of running restaurants.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Um what got to me was the my phone stopped ringing. My um uh I wasn't going because I used not use, but I the word use is a bit strong, but I went to my restaurants. Um I could be in a foul mood in a really big fight with anyone, my family or anyone, but you walk into your restaurant full of people, your mood switches immediately. So I used to use the restaurants to go in there and just get, you know, what I wanted from them, which is a lot of adrenaline. And that's gone. So that is that is tough. That was very tough. That I didn't have that anymore. That's why I became a consultant because these consultancy jobs that I got then gave me the opportunity to run a restaurant again. Although it wasn't my own and it wasn't my money, but I went to work like it was my own again. So that's why I um that's why I loved, you know, my the change of having your own and having someone else's, but it I felt it was my my own because I everybody knew who I was. So every table wanted me to talk to me. So it was very similar to having my own. That's I don't know whether that makes sense, but that's you know, and nobody's ever asked for that me that before. And that's what I'm telling you the way I actually felt then.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Yeah, I it makes perfect sense to me. Um but also this idea of of doing something that requires you to recover almost from something you had done, as you say, for 25 years. That fame must have made it harder to recover rather than easier.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Yeah, because uh the it got to the it leaked in the press um that I was going bankrupt, uh which wasn't true actually, because I I actually sold my restaurants. Uh I didn't I didn't shut them down for any other reasons. It's uh because I sold the the buildings. I didn't I sold the leases, I didn't sell my name. Um and that what what made it tough was the fact that how are people gonna react to the press that was coming out. And uh that was a bit scary actually as well, and at the same time, because I thought, you know, maybe now people are gonna see me in a different light, they're gonna not believe in me anymore because the restaurants are gone. You know, all these things cross your mind, and and it's uh and as you get older, you get you care more. You know, when I was young and and and rich and famous and crazy, I I didn't care about anything or anyone. But as you got older and then I stopped drinking, I got I got a little bit more sensitive, is the word.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

You talk about the newspapers. Of course, you were in the newspapers on a very regular basis because you were partying with your celebrity mates. So let's talk about them. You've mentioned George Michael, you've mentioned Freddie Mercury. I know Chris Evans was a was a huge mate of yours. Did you not live with him at one point, or was that uh uh merely uh uh a press speculation?

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Well, I'll suffer I f I felt like what I lived with him. Um, you know, being with someone uh I I ended up doing his radio show for in Virgin for a long time and um getting up early in the morning and going to the radio show. I don't know, I still don't know how we did it, to be honest. Uh but we did. Um I lived in one of his cottages in Surrey. Um yeah, so that was that that you know the parting on in that respect took a little bit of its toll. But you know, if I went back and would you do it again, that's what everybody wants to know. Would I do it again? I would you tomorrow? I will do it tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Chris is a real live wire, we know that. Chris is uh is a man who who thrives on that adrenaline of being on air. He loves it as much as you enjoy being a chef. What did you learn from watching his huge level of fame constantly being in the spotlight, having a job which meant that everyone knows when you're doing radio or television, people know whether you've had a good or a bad day because they've seen it. It's so public.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

What did his level of fame and being so close to it teach you?

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Um Well, he was um well he is, not was, because he's he's very much uh on um on the public eye still. Uh he's um in my um opinion is the best of what he does and uh he's he's a great man and I was very privileged to be so close to him and be his friend. Uh but we were so bad uh at influencing each other. So the way he dealt with it was was beautiful because he was so he never had a phone. Uh he was so um careless about what people thought of him. And that that taught me a lot. Yeah, it did.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

So that taught you not to care that much about what other people thought.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Yeah, yes. Yes, and that you shouldn't. I I still think that. I still think that um you do your best and uh whatever people think is uh it's their it's their thought, not yours. It's it's their problem, not my not mine. What can I say what can I do if someone doesn't like me? Nothing.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

It's still hard though, isn't it? It's still hard when somebody criticizes the way you look or the way you behave or indeed the way you cook.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

I hate it. Of course it's hard. It's hard. I mean food critics are the my worst enemies. Um, you know, I I can't I I hate when when uh I get bad reviews and I don't get very many, but when w sometimes I do we do, and uh in in life in general it's it's uh it's not nice. And and people don't realize what they do to you when when they you know I why being negative? If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything. That's what my dad used to say. How do you cope with it? Well, pretty badly. I I get um upset and I get um you know it bothers me for a couple of days and then and then I stop reading. You know, and that's the best thing. That's why I'm not very I'm not as active on social media as I should be. People say to me, Oh, you should be doing this, you should be doing that, but you know, actually I shouldn't be. I should be I I like to be private as well.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

It it's not always easy to Comment on others, but but yes, as we say, you you do have this close association with so many well-known people, and you were in their inner circle. What do you think fame cost people like Chris or Freddie Mercury or George Michael? Those people who you spent a lot of time with, what did fame cost them?

SPEAKER_00 44:24

Um Well, I uh fame for them was a different kettle of fish than it was for me. Uh they were famo you know, for me, a celebrity should be celebrated for what they do best. They were the the best of the best are their profession. Therefore, they were famous for it. And uh being famous for that is not like being famous for doing a reality show. It's not it's not the fame nowadays is perceived in a different way. To me, famous is for someone that are famous for their, you know, for what what they can do best. And uh I don't think that fame affected them as much as I I think, you know, money becomes with fame, right? So when you have enough or you have over of what you could ever spend in your life, that becomes the fame becomes rich, the rich becomes more parting, the more parting becomes more houses, more cars, more this, more that. More than we need. So the fame, going back to being famous and what it does to you, I think it, you know, in a if you can't handle it, it would ruin you. But if you can handle it like they did, it's absolutely fine. They, you know, they handled it well. I mean, George a bit less than others. Um, George Michael, you know, he he liked his privacy, which he got very little of. Um some of them became famous because they were so good at their profession and they didn't particularly like the fame to bother them. They wanted to be private and they wanted to do their singing and their writing and their whatever they were doing, um, and and be left alone.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

If you could rewind, same talent, same career, but no fame, would you take that deal?

SPEAKER_01 46:38

Uh no. I want to be famous.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

I love it. We close it without it. Oh no, I've got a few more things I want to know. What do people think that they know about you that isn't true?

SPEAKER_01 46:57

That I'm um a very miserable chef.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

Do people think that?

SPEAKER_00 47:03

I don't think anyone can think of Aldozillia and think you're miserable. Everybody does. They they think that they can't um they think that I am um not approachable, which which is wrong because I'm the most approachable man ever. It's people that don't know you. They they see you, but they don't know you. And that's that those are the people that are dangerous and they they put things together uh for what you've done and what you what you perceive to be doing, and people that don't know you, they they talk about you, but they don't know you. And that happens with all famous people, to be honest. Then you meet people and you think, oh, you know what, I was sort of wrong about that guy.

SPEAKER_02 47:45

That happens to me every day. If you could advise your 20-year-old self, who's freshly shipped over from Germany to England, about how to handle his life, how to handle the fame that was going to then build over the next 50 odd years, what would you say to him?

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Uh do you know what?

SPEAKER_00 48:10

Work hard and be humble and don't be horrible to other people. Even in kitchens I've never been horrible, and I am not a very approachable chef in kitchens. Uh chefs are not meant to be. So yeah, be be nice to people and don't don't ever get too big for your boots.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

That's a good way to end. Aldozilli, a man who didn't just cook his way to success, but has lived with what happens when the spotlight never quite leaves the table. And perhaps that's the real insight. Fame doesn't just change you, it amplifies everything. The successes, the pressures, the setbacks. So if you've enjoyed this episode of The Price of Fame, there are more conversations with people who've lived it, survived it, and are still working out what it really costs them. You can watch them on YouTube, you can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Please follow, subscribe, and indeed comment. I'm John Briggs. Thank you for watching and for listening, and we'll see you next time on the Price of Fame.